Donovan Wong
Donovan Wong at Gerry’s Fast Food, March 2020.
AUDIO INTERVIEW
SUMMARY
00:37 RESTAURANTS: Donovan Wong’s family business is Gerry’s Fast Foods. They’ve been there since May 1977. Donovan still has the original vendor’s permit! The address 724 St. Clair West between Rushton and McDonald’s.
01:20 SHOPS: When they first opened next door to them where McDonald’s is now was a ShopRite – competitors at the time of Consumers Distributing.
01:45 ShopRite – you had to fill out the form ahead and hand it to them and they would bring the merchandise from the back. As a teenager Donovan did all his Christmas shopping there.
02:06 IMMIGRATION: His father was influenced by his uncle to come to Canada from Jamaica. He could have gone to the States or Canada. His uncle extolled the virtues of Canada – its healthcare. He provided orientation into Canada for the family. He owned Ralph’s Bakery – at the time it was partly a restaurant as well. They produced a lot of baked Jamaican products. His father used to own a supermarket in Jamaica. He was getting desperate to do something here. His uncle suggested Donovan’s father do something like he did. At the time the hot-bed for Jamaican stores was on Eglinton but his father wanted to be in a fresh area. He didn’t want to be seen to be in competition with the person who brought him here.
03:52 RESTAURANTS / BUSINESS OWNER: Donovan was 17 at the time and he remembers his father coming along St. Clair and looking at the area and doing his own version of “market research” at the time. He would see how many Jamaican people there were in the neighbourhood. They wanted to see what the mix was. That was how they did their research. Based on that he decided to open on St. Clair in what had been a clothing store. His father bought the building.
04:47 DEMOGRAPHICS: Business started slowly. At the time the area was heavily Italian neighbourhood but still a good mixture of people. It slowly took off. There was a little competition. A lot of them didn’t take off.
05:40 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE / RESTAURANTS: St. Clair right-of-way it was very difficult during the construction. It was difficult for customers to come in. There were big holes, with a plank over it that customers had to cross. At one point he had to have customers come to the back of the store. Just a couple of days of that.
06:30 SHOPS: A lot of the businesses are no longer there. Ontario Chrysler used to be right across the street where Bracondale is now.
07:00 SHOPS / BUSINESSES / ST. CLAIR NEIGHBOURHOOD LIFE: There were a few small car dealerships and gas station - Tulio - the local garage and service station, at the corner of Rushton and St. Clair where condos are now.
07:45 It’s familiar and a family tradition having this business.
08:20 SHOPS: Rushton and St. Clair on NE corner (where The Rushton is now) there used to be a fruit market. The woman who ran it was named Maria. She was the matriarch. Donovan’s mother was very close to her.
09:28 Further along on St Clair there used to be Bargain Harolds. There was a BiWay where the Goodwill was (now a gym).
09:45 Kresge’s where Hakim is now. It had the soda fountain. It had very creaky floors.
10:24 RESTAURANTS / BUSINESS OWNER: that when they were children, used to have their birthday cakes made by him, now come and have him make birthday cakes for their own children. They make Jamaican rum (fruit)cakes and their version of a pound cake – any kind of cake, chocolate, carrot cake, banana cake, but predominantly the plain pound cakes and rum fruit cakes.
11:08 MEMORABLE EVENTS: at Salsa on St. Clair Donovan remembers so many old customers coming by, so happy to see them still there. It brings back many memories for people. Heart-warming to see these people.
11:36 They see new people, they want him to stay open later, he already spends so much time at the store, not good for family life.
12:20 He feels St. Clair has become very “yuppyfied” – it has changed along St. Clair.
12:55 RESTAURANTS/BUSINESS OWNER: Their restaurant is more like a “Ma and Pop” kind of thing, more intimate, his daughters help him, his sister comes on the weekend. His brother is the handyman.
13:45 NEIGHBOURHOOD: Everybody knows everybody.
14:50 RESTAURANTS/ BUSINESS OWNER / WORK: When they originally started his brother and he were older than his other two siblings. They lived in Mississauga, and the bulk of the work was done between his brother and himself, his parents and the workers that they had. His sister and him didn’t come until she was bigger. His brother was a little older (seems there are two brothers) and it was his job to look after his sister. He and brother would be doing everything, looking after customers. When they first started the store they mixed the dough for the patties by hand (no machine yet), it was laborious. It was difficult. They got a machine to help, and then a mixer – it made life a lot easier.
16:25 RESTAURANTS /SHOPS / MEMORABLE PEOPLE: Donovan and his sister, and daughters pretend that they are doing something and the other one has to guess which customer it is – all in good fun.
16:55 MEMORABLE PEOPLE: One gentleman comes every day and he has to have his soup. He says Gerry’s is a home away from home for him, a lot of people say that.
17:35 IMMIGRATION: This reminds him of a study that was done a long time ago where it was found that most immigrant communities tend to congregate in areas where they had common food – food was a bonding mechanism for them.
19:05 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE: Becoming more urban, more upscale. Not having an effect on business.
19:27 The restaurant is not a big draw for students, get a lot of parents, they enjoy Gerry’s.
20:10 IMMIGRATION / WEATHER: It was hard with the cold weather at first. His mother didn’t take to it at first, one winter they were going home and all the routes they were going were blocked with snow and they were on Eglinton (at Keele) and they got stuck in the snow and this Italian gentleman came out and gave them solace – he invited them into his home and gave them tea and coffee. It’s a wonderful memory he has of them in their early years. It was in the 70s.
21:23 WORK / WEATHER: Donovan and brother shovelled all the snow, he remembers a lot more snow then. Pictures with snow drifts up to waist
21:54 COMMUNITY GROUPS AND SERVICES: Most of them are getting pretty old, and have retired. There used to be a policeman who was an “ethnic” outreach worker. He came by the store the other day. He is retired but came in for some soup.
22:25 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE: One night his dad got a call from his tenant upstairs and he told him that someone was selling bread there for 50 cents (usually sold for $1.50). His dad had forgotten to close the door (and left the keys) and the guy came in and started selling groceries. At the time they sold a few Jamaican goods. His dad went in and when he got there the guy just said “hello Mr Wong” and gave him the keys.
23:18 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE: They have had a couple of break-ins. Nothing significant. Someone came in through vent for furnace. They have put bars in there.
23:53 RESTAURANTS / BUSINESS OWNER: Jerry’s Menu: Soup – Monday and Tuesday beef soup, Wednesday and Thursday they usually do chicken and Friday and Saturday it’s usually a red kidney bean or pigeon peas or occasionally goat or fish soup. It has French Canadian base – good hearty soup. It’s very popular in winter as well as chicken soup.
24:38 Regular Customers: One gentleman who comes in really likes his soup, and he gets it for his wife to show her what real chicken soup.
24:45 The same gentleman who has soup everyday is 85 years old, but still spritely and he went on the bus one day and the bus driver wanted to see his ID because he didn’t think he was a senior. The bus driver asked him how he looked so young and his response was “Gerry’s chicken soup.”
25:30 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE: Donovan remembered an old Chinese proverb “if you stay in one place long enough the whole world passes in front of you.”
25:40 RESTAURANTS / DEMOGRAPHICS: His family background is Jamaican/Chinese.
25:50 MEMORABLE PEOPLE: Avery Wells, she was Miss. Wells – older lady who lived in Bracondale House for years. She was a fixture on St. Clair. She was a nurse in the war and became a teacher after that. She used to teach all over Canada. In the summer, she would go to Sioux Lookout. She had a lot of “native” art. She was always giving stuff away. Every summer, she would bring him a stack of booklets that listed what was going on in the city. She used a cane and would use it to knock a car if it wasn’t driving safely. She would point the cane. She was very feisty. She would go in the bicycle shop near Wychwood and Leah’s. When she was sick he would nurse her with chicken soup – he would make it specially for her, not as spicy. Finally she got to the point where her nephew had to take her. She moved to Elliot Lake. She started losing her memory. A couple of years ago the people from the nursing home (Bracondale) across the street told him that she had passed away. She was there from his youth. She was funny.
29:50 She would go to the bar owners at 2am in the morning in her pjs and tell them to turn the music down.
30:36 Donovan and Miss. Wells shared birthdays – Dec. 27. Every birthday Christmas she would get him funny cards. He still has a stack of them at home.
31:40 There’s another woman who has lived in the neighbourhood for a while. She would also give books to him to read like “The Vinyl Cafe”.
32:35 NEIGHBOURHOOD STREET LIFE: Community: St. Clair feels like a town within a town. There’s a familiarity to it.
33:30 MEMORABLE PEOPLE: There’s another lady in Bracondale house, Helen. Donovan also brings her soup. She misses Avery. Avery was like a rebel. Avery is greatly missed.
34:20 Kevin Weeks who used to be the goaltender in NHL. He grew-up in the neighbourhood. Whenever his team played the Leafs he would come in for patties. Very nice guy. He still has lots of friends in the neighbourhood. They would come in before playing. One year he was in the finals for the Stanley Cup, but they lost. Donovan saw him after that. He said that if they had won the cup he would have brought the cup to Gerry’s.
35:20 Cito Gaston was a regular customer. The night that the Blue Jays won the World Series Cito Gaston came in for 2 chicken rotis. Donovan jokingly tells people that’s the reason they won the World Series.
35:47 Trevor Burdick (he fought Mike Tyson) was the heavyweight champion for a short time. He was a customer. Donovan’s father was a big boxing fan.
36:05 Dwight Drummond from the CBC is a regular customer. Whenever he can he puts Donovan in whatever he is working on. Donovan has become a face of St. Clair.
BlogTO also love Gerry’s and their Jamaican menu offerings!
TRANSCRIPT
Transcript of Interview with Donovan Wong – July 7, 2015
edited by Betsy May 30, 2025
00:08 Raylea Lambert (Interviewer) Okay, so today we are sitting in my dining room, I'm Raylea Lambert, and we're with the Wychwood Barns Community Association Oral History Project, and it's July 7th, 2015. And I'm sitting with Donovan Wong, who has had -- who has had a business -- whose family has had a business here for closing on 40 years. And maybe Donovan, you could start us a little bit back almost 40 years ago, with the beginning of it all. And what the name of the business is.
00:38 Donovan Wong The name of the business, first of all, my name is Donovan Wong. Well, you mentioned that before. And the name of the business is Jerry's Fast Foods. And we've been there since 1977. May 1977 is our, that's the date on our first Vendor's permit that we have and we still have it and it's a bit dilapidated for lack of a better word and I keep saying I have to get it laminated. Yeah, but um, you know That still haven't happened yet, but we've been there since 1977. I remember the first date.
01:15 Raylea What is the actual address on that?
01:19 Donovan It's 724, 724 and when we first moved there the spot that McDonald's and Rushton The spot that McDonalds was in was occupied by Shop Rite, they were competitors to Consumers Distributing at the time. Shop Rite, right that's right yeah, so there was Shop Rite there yes right right next door to us right so right by and the shop right that used to be there.
01:42 Raylea Yes, that's interesting.
01:45 Donovan Yeah, Shop Rite where you had to fill out the thing before and then hand it to them and then they would bring the merchandise from the back.
01:48 Raylea I remember that.
01:58 Donovan It was very convenient though, 'cause I used to do all my Christmas shopping over there and I was often last minute and I would fill out a bunch of them and-- (laughing) -
Raylea As a young man or a young teenager.
Donovan Yes, as a teenager.
02:02 Raylea But how did your family come to be on St. Clair?
02:05 Donovan My father was influenced by an uncle of mine when we first decided to leave Jamaica. He could either have gone to the States or to here. So I had an uncle here who extolled the virtues of Canada, the health care system and everything. And Dad based his decision upon that. And also on the fact that this uncle of mine would provide him with sort of like an orientation into Canada. And he had a business, which is still going right now. It’s called Ralph’s Bakery and if you go into supermarkets you will find his products. He doesn’t own it any more. But the name of the business is Ralph’s Bakery.
02:46 Raylea That's interesting Yeah, yeah, so what do they produce?
2:53 Donovan They produce like hard dough bread? Bullets, a lot of baked Jamaican product - Right, right. - So he had that business and then we came and Dad didn't know what to do. He used to have a supermarket in Jamaica. So he came and he's trying to find something to do and after a while you sort of get desperate because geez, you've been sitting here and you don't have anything to do.
03:16 Donovan So I think my uncle suggested why don't you do something like what I'm doing? 'Cause they used to sell. In the bakery that they used to have in Eglinton, they used to sell, it used to be part of a restaurant as well. And at the time, Eglinton was like the hotbed, was like the main area where all the Jamaican stores were. - Right. - But Dad wanted to be in a fresh area. He didn't want to be seen to be in competition with the person that brought him here.
03:41 Raylea Right.
03:46 Donovan So he said, okay, you know, he'll go find somewhere else. So we came, I remember as a young man, as a young teenager, I was about maybe 17, 18, 17 years old at the time. Him coming down on St. Clair, looking at the area, doing his own version of what was market research at the time, seeing how many Jamaican people in the area, seeing what the mix was. Do you think this is a good area? And that's how we did our market research at the time. And then based on that, he said, okay, well, we'll open here. So then it was a shoe store when he bought it. - It was a shoe store.
04:20 Raylea And so your family owns the building?
04:26 Donovan Not a shoe store, it was a clothing store. - A clothing store. Yeah, it was a clothing store.
04:28 Raylea And do you own the building then?
04:32 Donovan My father did. - My father bought it. - Yeah, he did. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And turned it into a restaurant. And You know the rest is history so they say so to speak.
04:37 Raylea That's right, and it did it immediately take off or did it take slowly?
04:44 Donovan Yeah, slowly because at the time it was... the mix at the time was heavily Italian mostly Italian neighborhood. But there was still a still a good mixture of people But it slowly took off.
5:00 Raylea And there wasn't any competition or much competition?
5:03 Donovan There were a few at the time, but none of them has lasted. There was, I think, PJs down the road. There's one right next door to us that has had several incarnations. They've changed hands several times. Right next door, they are Wailers at the moment, but before they were Circle B, different people took it over, and the guys that are there now have been there the longest.
05:28 Raylea That's interesting so have you seen a lot of changes along St. Clair over the years?
05:31 Donovan There's been a lot of changes on St. Clair starting for one with this new streetcar right of way.
05:38 Raylea Yes.
5:42 Donovan That personally I don't think is very good for business because it you know but according to statistics.
05:47 Raylea Well it must have been very hard for a for a while, especially when--
5:50 Donovan It was very difficult during the construction. All the business was done at a hard time. Because at certain points, nobody-- no customers would come in, because there was like a big-- they had to dig like a moat, I call it, for the gas line and the water line and everything. So for a couple of days, there was like a big hole and like a plank over it. And at some points, I had to have customers go to the back of the store.
06:18 Raylea Oh, did you?
06:23 Donovan Yeah, a couple of days. - Yeah. - But, you know. - - Yeah.
06:25 Raylea And so that's sort of the biggest change you've seen, or do you feel like-- - Along ]the St. Clair?
06:30 Donovan No, well, a lot of the businesses that have been there are no longer there. Cause when we first came there, there used to be like, there was a Chrysler dealership, Ontario Chrysler used to be right across the street, where the church is right now. No, no, not the church, the seniors-- -
06:42 Raylea Oh, Bracondale? There was a Chrysler where Bracondale...
06:45 Donovan Bracondale used to be a Chrysler dealership.
06:49 Raylea Oh, that's interesting. There were a few dealerships at different times, I think, along there.
06:53 Donovan Yeah. - There were a few - or at least in the area - there were a few, well, not big dealerships. That was the biggest one that there was, but there were a few smaller car lots that they used to sell cars, and there were a few gas stations along there. And it used to be a gas station along where that condo is to, Tulio, right, where, um, uh, South West Burgers and, uh, and, and New York fries. Yes. That used to be Tulio. Tulio used to be the, um, the local, uh, garage. Garage. Yeah. Yes. And a service station. Yeah. And, um, Tulio and Sam, they were there forever.
07:29 Raylea Right. Yeah. And so what do you think has, has made it such a successful place for you, because it's really, do you think you've adapted, or do you think people, what do you think it is?
07:38 Donovan Well, I don't know if successful is the right word. It's more combination of..it's partly comfort as well too, familiarity and just a family tradition.
07:54 Raylea Yeah, yeah. And so you didn't personally live in the area. Did the family?
7:58 Donovan No, no, no, no, we didn't live in this area. No, Yeah. No, no, this is the only one that we've had. This is one.
8:02 Raylea No, I mean other people that you've known. Like, is there a sort of in the neighborhood?
08:16 Donovan Yeah. Yeah, there used to be where the Rushton is right now. There used to be a little, like a food market. -
08:27 Raylea Yes, I remember that. - Her name was Maria. - Uh -huh, and it was called, was it called Maria's? - It was called Di Maria's. - Yeah, no, not down, but just me. - It was called, I think it was called Maria's, I'm not sure. - I think it might've been called Di Maria's, yeah. - But she was the matriarch, so to speak.
08:42 Raylea Was she?
09:01 Donovan Yeah, and they're still alive, by the way. I still see them every once in a while down at No Frills. She had a fall a few years back. I saw her son, she isn’t doing so well. I used to see them every once in a while at No Frills with her husband dutifully behind her.
09:05 Raylea Yeah, I remember that with the, and they had kind of bins like big, little green bins at the front, or the end, and it was just sort of wooden inside, it was just a very small.
09:19 Donovan But we were close to them, my mother was very close to them before she passed away. But I remember them very well. And there's several places along that has changed too.
09:31 Donovan There's further up on St. Clair. There used to be Bargain Harolds. Yes. There used to be Bi Way. Yes. Where the Good Will is at the moment. There used to be them, and there also used to be Kresges. - Yeah, there used to be a Kresges where the optical place is.
09:41 Raylea I don't remember that. - It used to be at Bathurst - towards Bathurst, right?
10:05 Donovan Yeah, yeah, where Hakim’s is and you go in there and there used to be creaky floors, like a Woolworths.
10:09 Raylea Lots of people have growing up memories of Kresge's in Toronto, it's true.
10:16 Raylea Yeah, and I guess we've just seen so many changes. Do you have customers that have been with you for a long time?
10:20 Donovan I have customers that were children that we sell a lot of birthday cakes as well too. That's part of one of the things that we sell a lot of. Yeah. And I have customers that used to get their birthday cakes there that I know buying cakes for their children.
10:38 Raylea Oh, isn't that lovely? That's right. So what kind of birthday cakes do you make?
10:39 Donovan We make Jamaican rum cake. Yes. We make like our version of like a pound cake. Yes. We make any kind of cake practically, chocolate cake, banana cake, pound cakes and fruit cakes, the black, the rum cakes. - Yeah, yeah. Isn't that carrot cake, banana cake, whatever you want, we'll make it. But predominantly we make pound cakes and fruit cakes, the black, the rum cakes. - Yeah, yeah.
10:57 Raylea Isn't that wonderful? That's a really nice tradition. So you're sort of part of the tradition along St. Clair, which is really wonderful.
11:00 Donovan Yes, we are. As a matter of fact, there was at Salsa on the weekend here, I saw so many old customers that came in there that were so happy to see us still there, you know, they said, oh, you know, I'm so, this place has been so, so much a part of my memories growing up. You know, and I'm so happy you guys are still here. You know, this place brings back so many memories. Yes. - It was very heartwarming to see a lot of these people.
11:32 Raylea Yeah. And you must see new people coming in all the time too.
11:35 Donovan Yeah, we see new people. Yeah, a lot of new people. Yeah, new regulars. New regulars, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. The only problem is that they want us to open later though. -
11:40 Raylea Everybody wants you to change your hours.
11:43 Donovan Yeah, yeah. - I told them my wife will divorce me if I stay open any later, 'cause I already spent so much time at the store. -
11:51 Raylea I'm sure, I'm sure that's true. And you know, you get the dinner crowd. - Yeah. - Yeah, and the lunch crowd,
11:56 Raylea …which is important, I know. And I imagine, I see so many changes like physically, but there's just a, do you think the vibe has changed along St. Clair? Do you think there's a different kind of?
12:11 Donovan I think so. I think it's becoming more and more, for lack of a better word, UPI. Is there, is UPI, is the word? - Yeah, I don't know if that word's still it. (laughing) It's getting very, very UPI. -
12:27 Raylea Yeah, it's changing a bit, yeah. - A lot of young professionals, I see a lot of young families in the neighborhood. There's a lot of young families in the neighborhood, aren't there?
12:35 Donovan Yeah, there are.
12:47 Raylea Like, there are a lot of restaurants, but not a lot of restaurants like yours.
12:50 Donovan No, they aren't. Ours is more like a mom and pop kind of thing like a more like not like a diner but more more intimate in terms of the people that are serving and the people that are there like we're all family my daughters helped me, my sisters come down on a week my sister comes on the weekend my brother he's like our handyman you know whenever whatever needs to be done yeah you know whenever he can fit us in because he's very busy as well yeah but there's a lot of restaurants but they're more high end restaurants like, you know, that are popping up. - Yeah. - You know, Rushton, Catch. - Yeah. - You know.
13:10 Raylea Family. They're family. Catch. - Yeah. - You know. - Family. They're family.
13:30 Raylea They are, yeah. (laughing) - Different family. I know, I know. So it's sort of, but I think that people, when I come into your store, sometimes people, everybody seems to be chatting. There seems to be kind of a nice feeling that people are talking.
13:50 Donovan Yeah, everybody everybody knows everybody. It's sort of like the bar Cheers where everybody knows your name.
13:53 Raylea So when your father did this market research back in 1977, his version of it, I wonder what, did he ever tell you what it was that made him think that this could be the place that would work?
14:10 Donovan He just took a chance I think, I think he just, he knew he had to do something. You get to that point where sometimes it's do, it's, I wanna say, I don't know if this is appropriate to say that, it's blank or get off the pot.
14:24 Raylea Right, right, right, you gotta get going. Yeah, or nothing's gonna happen, right?
14:34 Donovan So we just got to that point where he just had to do something.
14:40 Raylea So, you were working in the store and your parents and did you say a sister did ?
14:48 Donovan She was. Actually when we originally started my brother and I were older than my younger sister and my younger brother so um and we lived in Mississauga okay so that's a commute yeah so um most of the bulk of the work was between my brother and I and my parents and the workers that we had. My sister and them didn't come in until afterwards until they got bigger because my brother was a little bit older than my sister. So his job was basically to look after her until they got home.
15:21 Raylea Yeah. Yeah. And you would just be looking after people as they came into the store?
15:24 Donovan The store? Yeah. Well, I'd be doing everything. We'd be doing everything. Yeah. So The picture that I showed you earlier, that's after we got a machine to help us with the patties. When we first started, we did everything by hand, mixing the dough by hand. It was a very laborious process, very labour intensive, very tiring, very long tiring days.
15:47 Donovan Very difficult. You know, my brother and I used to do a lot of that, And then we got a machine that helped us do it like a sheerer, you know. It made life a lot easier and then a mixer that makes the dough also made life a lot easier too.
16:01 Raylea So do you think, and you did talk about customers coming back over the years back because you obviously provide something that they really enjoy. But is there any, do you have any recollections of particular customer that stands out in your mind as I mean other than there?
16:23 Donovan Yes we do we have um as a matter of fact my sister and I and my daughters too started to play this game where we um we say we say we do like a charade and then we say which customer is this that we do different things because they all have they all have their different peculiarities so that we do different uh you know we'll pretend that we're doing something and say okay that's so and so that's so and so.
16:42 Raylea Right, right. And it's all in good fun.
16:47 Donovan It's all in good fun, exactly.
16:49 Raylea Yeah, yeah. And I guess that people feel really comfortable there.
16:52 Donovan Yeah, yes, they do, they do. There's this one gentleman that comes there every day. He's an older gentleman, he's retired now, and he says, this is his home, he comes there every day, and he says, he has food at his home, but he can't sit home by himself and eat, so he comes there every evening to have his soup. He likes soup. I'm talking about Hardy. He comes for his soup, and then he chats. You know, everyone comes in there. It's like a home away from home for him and a lot of people say that. This is their home.
17:18 Raylea So you provide that kind of comfortable family atmosphere for them. Yes. Yeah.
17:34 Donovan I was -- This reminds me of a study that was done long time ago where they found that most immigrant communities tended to congregate in areas where they had common food. So like food was like a bonding mechanism for them, you know, if you're like an Ethiopian restaurant or something, you tend to find a lot of them, so I guess it's the same kind of thing.
18:01 Raylea Obviously, you provide a really nice atmosphere. And as you say, the regular people come back and you get by, you have seen a change. I mean, you're talking about a lot of dollar stores, and now most of those have all gone, or the bargain stores have gone. Most of the small stores have gone. - And the Kresges and the Consumers, and they've all gone.
18:06 Donovan Yeah, they've all gone. - Yep, a lot of changes, it's becoming, it's becoming more urban, more more upscale if you want.
18:24 Raylea Yeah, but it's not really making it's not having an enormous effect on your business in any way.
18:29 Donovan Not particularly.
18:30 Raylea Yeah, you've got that kind of study thing happening and the students that come in you must get a lot of students coming in.
18:41 Donovan We get a lot of students, not that many like I mean McDonald's is a big draw for them and I don't have the advertising budget that McDonald's have.
18:46 Raylea I know, but you offer something somewhat unique.
18:48 Donovan What I get a lot of is a lot of parents, they come and they say the kids want McDonalds but I want this. So they drop them off there and they come and they get their stuff.
18:59 Raylea That's a good idea. Yeah.Yeah. And so, well, is there anything else that really strikes you about memory about St. Clair that we haven't really talked about today? Any memories of your parents in those early years? What was it like for them?
19:15 Donovan It was difficult at first. The long periods of cold weather, my mother didn't take to it very much at first when she first came. I remember one winter, they were going home and all the routes that they were going were blocked with snow and they ended up somewhere on Eglinton and they got stuck in the snow and this Italian gentleman came out and he offered them solace and he invited them in, gave them tea, gave them coffee, and that's a wonderful memory that I have of them in the early years. That was when we used to get snow in Toronto. This is not the kind of snow that we get now. We got real snow in those days, in the '70s.
20:04 Raylea Isn't that wonderful, yeah. - But I remember that very well. So who would be shovelling all that snow in front of the restaurant?
20:12 Donovan Who do you think? (laughing) My brother and I. (laughing)
20:18 Raylea Yeah, yeah, so you know that there was more snow back then.
20:22 Donovan There was a lot more snow then, yeah. I have pictures of me in snow just up to my waist.
20:30 Raylea Yeah, yeah. And there must be workers or have you come to know any of the people who work, like there are people who take care of the streets or who are, someone has mentioned them, people who are on the neighbourhood along St. Clair, whose job is to be around there.
20:42 Donovan We've got to know a lot of them, but we've been there so long that a lot of them are getting old. Yes. Because, like you say, I think they're almost 40 years, 1970, so 37 years I think. So a lot of them are retired. Like we used to know a lot of the men that picked up the garbage and stuff. Like know them well. - Yeah. - So a lot of them are retired. We used to know a lot of the policemen at the time.
21:10 Raylea Oh, isn’t that interesting.
21:13 Donovan Like, there used to be for lack of a better word, an ethnic unit where they used to like have an outreach, and I saw there's this older retired police gentleman that comes in the store. He was friends with the family, and I saw he came in the other day. As a matter of fact, he made a special trip to the store because he wasn't feeling well, and he said he just needed some soup. So he came all the way, he's retired now, and he has a farm out in Orono where he raises cows. He says He prefers being near to the cows because the cows don't talk back to him. His wife talks back to him.
21:47 Raylea So he still comes in what so if he's in town he comes in, isn't that lovely.
21:52 Donovan And I was asking him about some of the other policemen that used to come in with him and he was telling me who's passed on and who's retired and who's not doing so well because I remember them when they used to come in.
22:20 Raylea So they just kind of come in as part of this unit or just part
22:21 Donovan …more because they were like a community outreach kind of thing. Is everything okay?
22:22 Raylea Because there are areas along things that have run into trouble with crime like their shops that have been targeted and so on.
22:24 Donovan No, we haven't had that. You haven't had anything like that. I'll tell you. We had one funny incident. One night my dad got a call from the tenant who lives upstairs you know, and he asked my father, "Did you sell the store?" So, Dad said, "No."
22:36 Donovan He says, "Well, there's a man in there, and he's selling bread." At the time, bread was like maybe $1.50 for a loaf. He said, "He's selling bread for 50 cents in there." Apparently, my father had forgotten to lock the door. He'd forgotten to close the door. And this guy came in there turning lights on, and he started selling stuff.
23:02 Donovan No, he wasn't selling food. At the time, we used to sell some groceries, like bread, crackers, some Jamaican groceries and stuff.
23:04 Raylea That's funny.
23:06 Donovan So when Dad came, he saw Dad, he says, "Hello, Mr. Wong," and he just gave him the keys, and he just lost it. He's the one. You're right.
23:11 Raylea And that is funny. And that's it? That's your host? Like, that was in terms of, you know, anything you've had?
23:16 Donovan No, we've had, we've had, we've had a couple of break -ins, but not, not anything significant. Yeah. Yeah. significant. When we came one morning, there was like the vent for the furnace. Somebody had come in through that, the vent. So no, we put like bars there for the vent.
23:36 Raylea But it's been pretty good.
23:39 Donovan It's been pretty good. Yeah, you know, yeah,
23:43 Raylea But before we finish I have to ask you about the soup you keep talking about? I'm thinking, okay, I haven't had that soup. So what kind of soups are you making?
23:52 Donovan We have different kinds. On Monday, usually on a Monday or Tuesday, we'll do beef soup. On a Wednesday, Thursday, we'll do chicken. Okay. And on a Friday on a Saturday, it's usually like red kidney bean or pigeon peas. Or occasionally I'll do goat soup or fish soup but more than often it's a it's a pea soup. It's usually it's a red kidney bean soup, which is like sort of like I has like a French Canadian beef stew it like in terms of it has like salted beef and beef potatoes, yams, dumplings. It's very it's very hearty.
24:30 Raylea Good hearty soup.
24.33 Donovan Yes a good hearty soup good to have in the winter time. Although the chicken soup is pretty popular in the winter time
24:36 Raylea Yeah, yeah, well, yes, - Yeah, well, yes, and that's good to know.
24:39 Donovan This gentleman that comes in there and he buys chicken soup and he says, "I'm taking this for my wife." - Yeah, yeah, isn’t that wonderful.
24:43 Donovan And the same gentleman I'm telling you about, that had soup every day. He was on, he's closing in on 85 years old. But he's still very sprightly, he's 85, yeah. He's very sprightly. And he went on the bus one day and the bus driver asked to see his ID. He didn't think he was a senior. [LAUGHTER] So he finally showed him his ID. He's 85. And then the bus driver says to him, geez, how do you look so young? He says, Jerry's chicken soup.
25:19 Raylea Jerry's chicken soup. Isn't that wonderful? That's a great story. I guess it's nice with all the changes along St. Clair. It's really nice to have some stability. Yeah.
25:27 Donovan There's an old Chinese proverb that they say, if you stay in one place long enough, the whole world passes in front of you.
25:34 Raylea That's right. Yeah, yeah. Well, as you said, you've seen all the different people, the workers and the things over the years.
25:42 Donovan Our background is Jamaican-Chinese too, or that.
25:45 Raylea Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're just going to add a little bit because you had something else that you were-- -
25:49 Donovan I was thinking, it just came to me a while ago that I shouldn't end this interview without speaking about Avery Wells. We used to call her, she was Avery Wells. We used to call her Mrs. Wells. She's an older lady that used to live across the street in Bracondale House. She lived there for years, but she was a fixture on St. Clair. Everybody knew her. She used to walk about with her, what color was her umbrella or her cane? She was a feisty old lady. And she used to be, she was a nurse first, a nurse. And then after, was it during the war? I'm not sure. And then afterwards, she became a teacher after that. And she taught all over Ontario. She used to, all over Canada, she used to teach. In the summer, she used to go to, Sioux Lookout is it Sioux Lookout? yeah. She looked at Sioux Lookout. She had all these interesting artifacts in her apartment, little wind chimes, yeah, and, oh, wind catcher, the dream catcher. Yeah, and she had a lot of native art and stuff.
26:54 Raylea Oh, yes, well, she went up north, she would have collected it.
26:58 Donovan She had all kinds of stuff, and every time I go, she would always say, "Go ahead, take it." You know, I said, "Why?" She says, "After I'm gone, who's going to, you know, who's going to be in there?"
27:01 Donovan She was always giving away stuff because she says, she says, you know, I'm old. Yeah. Um, but she would, every summer she would come, she was very lively. She knew everything that was going on in the city. She would come every summer. Every season she would bring me a stack of booklets. So this is what's going on down at Harbourfront. This is what's going on down at Ontario Place. She knew everything that was going on. She would walk about with her cane. Yes. And if there was a car that was not driving where it was supposed to drive. She would take her cane and, you know, knock the car. - - And she would,
27:43 Raylea Oh, isn't that funny?
27:46 Donovan But she used to go, everybody along St. Clair knew her. She used to go on the bicycle shop. Yes. Just down on St. Clair, before you got to get to Wychwood, they knew her well.
27:55 Raylea Yes, yes, yes. well.
28:00 Donovan She used to go into that new, what's the one by Wychwood there's a new store that sells baked goods. -Leah’s? Leah’s, yes. When they first opened up, she used to go in there. She's probably one of their first customers there to try stuff.
28:11 Donovan But she was very much a fixture on St. Clair. I can't think of the neighborhood I think of her. And then when she first started to to get sick. You're fine, I'll try to reassure her, but gradually her memory went, then she got sick a few times, and then I used to nurse her back to health with my chicken soup. I used to make her these big buckets of chicken soup because she couldn't eat regular food. Not as spicy as I usually did. And not all the stuff that we put inside there, you know, she's got like no sweet potatoes and turnips and stuff, she's a digest.
28:55 Donovan So through several bouts at the hospital, you know, nursed her back to health until finally she got to the point where her nephew had to take her. And then she moved up to Elliot Lake, I think. And And then, you know, I used to talk to her occasionally, but then after a while she wouldn't remember who I was.
29:23 Donovan And then a couple years ago, the people from the nursing home across the street, they came over and told me she had passed away.
29:28 Raylea From Bracondale.
29:33 Donovan Yeah. But no mention of St. Clair is complete without mentioning her. Whether, because she was a real fixture. She was a real fixture of St. Clair.
29:40 Raylea So that's for how many years, can you imagine?
29:42 Donovan She was here forever. - Forever, so from your youth, almost, you know? - Yeah, she was, yes. - Yeah, yeah, and cared about the people. - And she was very funny too. And she would, there's a bar next door to us. Well, not a bar, it's like a restaurant bar, it's called Wailers. And like I mentioned, there's been several people that have taken, that have been running And she would go over there like at two o 'clock in the morning in her pajamas and tell him to turn the music down. (laughing) -
30:08 Raylea So she'd cross St. Clair in her pajamas. -
30:10 Donovan She'd cross St. Clair in her pajamas.
30:13 Raylea So she was clearly in the front of Bracondale back now. - Oh, that's-- -
30:16 Donovan She would cross, she would go in there at two o 'clock in the morning and tell him to turn the music down.
30:19 Raylea And would they?
30:24 Donovan No, sometimes they would. (laughing)
30:28 Raylea Oh, that's a great story. -
30:42 Donovan She was very, she was feisty, is the word to describe her though.Yeah. And a real character and obviously loved by everybody. Very caring character though. I shared birthdays with her. My birthday was the same as her, 27th of December. And you know very nice handwriting. Her penmanship was beautiful. And she'd write me these. She'd get me these and she wouldn't get me regular cards. She'd get me like really funny cards, like wacky cards, you know, and I have a stack of them at home, you know.
31:04 Raylea Well, I really, it's really great to hear about, you know, someone like that, and I wish I could, she came to mind, but you know, it's wonderful. I'm sure I'll find other people who will remember her. -
31:12 Donovan Yes, if you go to the bicycle shop, people will remember her. - I don't know, Her name is Mrs. Wells, Ms. Wells, I'm sure. Little lady with her umbrella or her cane, you know. - And she'd been around in this area for a long, long time. - She'd go to Starbucks, and bring her a book. She's to go, no, before, yeah, Starbucks and second cup. There used to be second cup further down in Bathurst. She'd go in there with her books, and she would give me books too. She would give me, as a matter of fact, I still have a couple of books that she lent me that I was supposed to return to her.
31:49 Donovan This is the Velvet Underground or something from CBC Radio. Oh, oh, the Velvet, the cafe, the vinyl cafe? - The vinyl cafe, the vinyl cafe. The stories from the street. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - She has a couple of books from him and she lent them to me and I don't know how far in the books I've got.
31.55 Raylea So I mean it's a full way of life.
32:01 Donovan It's a job but it's it's more than a job. It's a yeah and it's interesting because you get to know people never intimate with.
32:25 Raylea Yeah.
32:27 Raylea Do you think it feels like a neighborhood like just St. Clair feel like it feels like a smaller town or a bigger town.
32:32 Donovan It almost feels like a smaller place. - It feels like a town within a town.
32:40 Raylea Yeah. - Yeah, and there's a familiarity to it.
32:42 Donovan Yeah. Because just the past weekend here, I was taking my sister down to a supplier of mine and I was joking and saying to her that my car could probably know the way, if I let the wheel go, it probably knew the way to go down to the supplier by itself. I've gone there so many times.
32:59 Donovan I know it's life to see somebody like the client like that but when you see somebody full of life and you know has like a real zest for life and then you see them not being able to cope it's kind of heart disheartening but I mean I tell myself you know it's it's a cycle of life you know.
33:05 Raylea Right right
33:20 Donovan But it was kind of hard to see Miss Wells, 'cause she was so full of life. -
33:24 Raylea Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure. It is, those characters are important. They make our lives.
33:29 Donovan There's another lady right now, her name is, she's also lives in Bracondale House. I also bring her chicken soup every once in a while too. But she, I think she misses Avery, because Avery was like, she was like like a rebel, you know, she could she you know, it's a something didn't know. No, no, you know, she was like great energy. Yes a great energy. Yes propelled things along
33:58 Donovan So how do you know is there I think I think she says oh, you know, I think I think a lot of people miss her because she was, you have to miss her whether you hate her or you love her, but you you would
34:10 Raylea Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad you mentioned her.
34:12 Donovan You know, I'm happy I remembered her before I left.
34:15 Raylea Yeah, you were just telling me a little bit. Let's go to our hockey.
34:20 Raylea Okay. Let's start with the hockey story quickly.
34:25 Donovan Okay, hockey story. Kevin Weeks, who used to be the goaltender for, I'm not sure, I forget which team, but he used to be the goaltender for a team that was in the finals of the Stanley Cup. But he grew up in the neighborhood, and whenever they would play the Leafs, he would always come in for patties. - Yeah. - He always came in very, very nice guy I should also add. He still has a lot of friends that live in the neighborhood and they would go play ball down at George Brown. So they would come in for their patties and then go play ball. So one year they were in the finals for the Stanley Cup and well, they lost, they didn't win. But I saw him after that and he said, he told me that each player gets to keep the cup for a little bit, and he says if they had won the cup, he would have brought the cup to Jerry's.
35:07 Raylea I just think that's a wonderful story. Well, we can just envision it. Maybe putting this out here it will happen one day.
35:21 Raylea And then you were talking about good old days of the Jays when the Jays won their glory.
35:29 Donovan As a matter of fact, the night that the Jays won the World Series, I don't remember if it was the first time or the second time, but Cito Gaston used to come in there all the time, and the night that they won, he came in there for two chicken rotis. So I keep jokingly telling people that that's the reason they won the World Series, because Cito Gaston came to get his chicken rotis.
35:41 Raylea I know, that's a great story, that's a great story.
35:48 Donovan We've had several famous people, there's Trevor Burwick, He beat, he used to be, is it Mike Tyson or, I forget who he beat, but he was the heavyweight champion for a very short time, for a very short while. But he's been in there and my Dad was a big boxing fan.
36:02 Raylea Yeah, yeah.
36:06 Donovan Well, we have a few interesting customers. Dwight comes in all the time. Dwight Drummond.
36:10 Raylea Yeah, from the CBC, yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:15 Donovan He's in there all the time. And he actually, he actually comes here a lot. And whenever he can he puts me in whatever he's doing, whatever project he's doing. As a matter of fact, he has me running an ad right now in My Toronto for her point of so. It's very short. I'm surprised it's so short because they were in there for like half a day and then it's cut down to like about two seconds. If you squint, you will miss me.
36:35 Raylea Yeah, yeah, isn't that wonderful. Well, that's right. So you really have become a face of St. Clair. I think so. You and Miss Avery are going to be members along St. Clair. I hear people coming in and saying, oh, so can I get an autograph? It’s been really great to get a chance to talk to you and find out a little bit about it.
36:54 Donovan It's been a pleasure of mine, too. And good luck with the project.
36:58 Raylea Yeah, it's wonderful, so thank you so much. OK, thank you.